100:00:00,860 –> 00:00:03,920Pastor Colin200:00:03,920 –> 00:00:07,840Welcome to Open the Bible with Pastor Colin Smith. I’m David Pick.300:00:07,840 –> 00:00:12,740I’m glad you could join us today and something special on Open the Bible today.400:00:12,740 –> 00:00:19,900Pastor Colin Smith was recently interviewed on Premier Christian Radio by Lydia Bennett for the Surgery Hour program.500:00:19,900 –> 00:00:27,320The subject of the interview is growing in faith, which happens to be also the title of a recent book by Pastor Colin600:00:27,320 –> 00:00:34,980and we will hear later how you can get hold of a copy. For now, here is Lydia Bennett in conversation with Pastor Colin Smith.700:00:34,980 –> 00:00:39,520When people hear that phrase growing faith, what is your sense of what people often get wrong?800:00:39,520 –> 00:00:49,799I think that one thing that people get wrong is the idea that we would be saved by the strength of our faith, and that’s a big mistake.900:00:50,060 –> 00:00:56,099We’re not saved by the strength of our faith. We’re saved by the strength of our Saviour.1000:00:56,099 –> 00:01:03,040And even a very little faith in the Lord Jesus Christ gets a person saved because He’s a great Saviour,1100:01:03,040 –> 00:01:09,419so I often try to encourage people on this because people often feel,1200:01:09,419 –> 00:01:13,300you know, they’ll say, Pastor, my faith isn’t what it ought to be.1300:01:13,639 –> 00:01:18,919And I guess every Christian feels that because faith is a journey.1400:01:18,919 –> 00:01:24,199There are degrees of faith. Jesus spoke about great faith.1500:01:24,199 –> 00:01:28,279He said to a centurion that this is greater faith than I’ve seen in all Israel.1600:01:28,279 –> 00:01:31,620He spoke on five occasions about little faith.1700:01:31,620 –> 00:01:36,360And little faith is a great place to begin because faith can grow.1800:01:36,360 –> 00:01:43,000And the fact that Jesus spoke about little faith so often, I think, is one of the indications that that’s where we all begin.1900:01:43,419 –> 00:01:47,620How would you define spiritual maturity in simple terms? What does it actually mean?2000:01:47,620 –> 00:01:54,519Well, if I was going to give a definition of faith, I think I’d go to Hebrews 10,2100:01:54,519 –> 00:02:03,58011, where we’re told that faith is the assurance of things that are hoped for and the conviction of things that are not seen.2200:02:03,860 –> 00:02:13,119So the way that I try and frame that is simply to say that faith believes what God has promised and trusts what God has revealed.2300:02:13,720 –> 00:02:16,139The things that are hoped for are things that are promised.2400:02:16,160 –> 00:02:18,740They’re things that we don’t yet have or enjoy.2500:02:18,740 –> 00:02:20,160We don’t have a perfect world.2600:02:20,880 –> 00:02:23,240We’re not free from suffering.2700:02:23,440 –> 00:02:25,100These are things that are hoped for.2800:02:25,520 –> 00:02:34,339So faith trusts what God has promised and believes what God has revealed.2900:02:34,440 –> 00:02:37,740So the things God has revealed are things like that God really loves me.3000:02:39,339 –> 00:02:46,919His love is poured out in Christ that by faith, I really am forgiven and made a child of God and destined for glory.3100:02:46,940 –> 00:02:49,179So faith trusts and faith believes.3200:02:49,460 –> 00:02:54,919What is that difference between growing in knowledge and growing in faith?3300:02:55,259 –> 00:03:01,860You know, there’s an old story that comes from the United States, the Niagara Falls.3400:03:02,300 –> 00:03:11,460And I don’t know if it’s a true story, but it’s been repeated many times about a man by the name of Blondon, who was a high wire kind of artist.3500:03:11,460 –> 00:03:19,740And he had a wire over Niagara Falls and was pushing a wheelbarrow over and then challenged someone who was watching with a sense of awe.3600:03:19,800 –> 00:03:24,820Do you believe that I could take you in this wheelbarrow over Niagara Falls?3700:03:25,160 –> 00:03:26,960And of course the person would say, oh, yeah, I believe you could.3800:03:26,960 –> 00:03:28,520Well, will you get in the wheelbarrow?3900:03:28,520 –> 00:03:29,860Absolutely no way.4000:03:30,360 –> 00:03:44,279Now there’s a profound sense in which trust moves us from believing that Jesus has the ability to save us to actually trusting that he will save me.4100:03:44,279 –> 00:03:49,699And that’s a big movement and a very significant one.4200:03:49,699 –> 00:04:06,699And to come to the place of saying, Jesus, not only do I believe that you can help me here, but I’m going to actually trust you to help me here and then to bring a particular issue in which we’re looking for help to him and trust it into his hands.4300:04:06,960 –> 00:04:09,619I think that’s something that Christians are doing all the time.4400:04:09,619 –> 00:04:15,419I feel like I have to do it all the time in my life and that’s what the Christian life looks like.4500:04:15,419 –> 00:04:21,540You know, can someone know a lot about about the Bible, but still be in that position where they’re spiritually immature?4600:04:21,739 –> 00:04:28,200Yeah, well, yes, and one of the things that James says is that even the demons believe in Shadder.4700:04:28,200 –> 00:04:35,519So that that’s one of the reasons we know for sure that faith involves more than simply knowing certain things and believing them to be true.4800:04:35,519 –> 00:04:43,940It involves this, this trust the demons certainly don’t trust in the savior, though, they know the reality that that he is risen from the dead.4900:04:44,279 –> 00:04:47,660So that’s why I think the distinction that we’re talking about here is important.5000:04:47,899 –> 00:04:49,200Faith has two sides.5100:04:49,200 –> 00:04:52,679It’s believing and it’s trusting the two sides of the same coin.5200:04:53,079 –> 00:05:00,079And the reason that we are able to trust Jesus is that we do actually believe that he’s the son of God and that he rose from the dead.5300:05:00,079 –> 00:05:01,720That’s the basis on which we trust.5400:05:01,720 –> 00:05:03,779It’s not a kind of blind leap in the dark.5500:05:04,100 –> 00:05:07,920faith is based on compelling evidence.5600:05:08,279 –> 00:05:20,660And that’s why John says, at the end of his gospel, these things are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God, and the by believing you may have life in his name.5700:05:20,660 –> 00:05:23,019A great statement in a marvellous promise.5800:05:23,299 –> 00:05:27,260Well, some of those signs that a person’s faith is genuinely growing.5900:05:28,260 –> 00:05:33,579I think in some ways when we look at ourselves, it’s sometimes quite difficult to see, I’m I growing.6000:05:33,640 –> 00:05:40,920Only when we when we look back for what’s some of those signs that we can we can see, okay, Lord, I’m growing in faith in you.6100:05:42,160 –> 00:05:43,559Well, I guess I’m going to be many.6200:05:43,579 –> 00:05:46,760But I’ll tell you what I think is one of the most distinct of all.6300:05:47,540 –> 00:05:52,339And that is still to love Jesus and to trust him.6400:05:52,500 –> 00:05:55,820When something’s going on in your life that you really don’t understand.6500:05:56,500 –> 00:05:59,820Because the classic example of that in the Bible is is Job.6600:06:00,220 –> 00:06:01,859Here’s this Godly man.6700:06:01,899 –> 00:06:08,220I mean, he lived a good and a godly life and then suffered great tragedies and great loss.6800:06:08,940 –> 00:06:10,779And what was he going to do?6900:06:10,820 –> 00:06:13,440I mean, his wife said you should just curse God and die.7000:06:14,279 –> 00:06:20,399But in the middle of what he didn’t understand, he loved and trusted God still.7100:06:20,959 –> 00:06:31,019And I think, you know, if faith was simply a decision, then when something we didn’t understand came along, we would simply undecide or uncommit ourselves.7200:06:31,239 –> 00:06:33,359We would say okay, I’m no longer going down that road.7300:06:33,880 –> 00:06:41,559But when a person says I don’t understand what’s going on, I don’t like what’s going on, but I’m going to trust Jesus and I do love Jesus.7400:06:41,959 –> 00:06:46,040Well, the only explanation of that is you are really born again.7500:06:46,040 –> 00:06:51,600The Holy Spirit is in you because otherwise you wouldn’t be saying what you’re saying and doing what you’re doing.7600:06:51,600 –> 00:06:56,540And that to me is the most wonderful thing, that glorifies God in a marvelous way.7700:06:56,920 –> 00:06:58,839And you see it with true Christians all the time.7800:06:59,380 –> 00:07:04,480For years you’ve been pastoring people, you’ve been journeying alongside people in faith.7900:07:04,519 –> 00:07:09,000What are some of those common challenges to growing in faith?8000:07:09,040 –> 00:07:14,880What are some of those things that you’ve seen the people that you’ve been pastoring that get in the way of going deeper?8100:07:16,200 –> 00:07:20,100Well, I think some of them are issues like anxiety.8200:07:21,260 –> 00:07:31,739The first time Jesus spoke about little faith was when he was speaking about anxiety and the pointlessness of it.8300:07:31,760 –> 00:07:40,200Because by being anxious, he says, in Matthew in Chapter Six, you can’t extend your life and you don’t need to be anxious8400:07:40,200 –> 00:07:44,480because your father provides for the birds and feeds them.8500:07:44,480 –> 00:07:49,279And you are of more value than the birds.8600:07:49,279 –> 00:07:51,739And then he says, oh, you of little faith.8700:07:51,739 –> 00:07:55,359So he’s clearly speaking to the power of anxiety.8800:07:56,519 –> 00:08:01,320The power of fear would be another example of that.8900:08:01,839 –> 00:08:08,500The disciples in the boat, when the storm is on the lake, and they say, Oh, we’re perishing.9000:08:08,500 –> 00:08:10,279They’re clearly very afraid.9100:08:10,739 –> 00:08:15,739And Jesus says, Oh, you have little faith, in Matthew’s account of that.9200:08:15,739 –> 00:08:22,019So these would be examples of just ordinary things in life that come to us.9300:08:22,019 –> 00:08:27,640And what’s striking to me, Lydia, is that faith, a little bit like a muscle actually9400:08:27,640 –> 00:08:29,260needs to be exercised.9500:08:29,260 –> 00:08:35,659Someone breaks a bone, and you know, your leg or your arms put in a plaster cast.9600:08:35,659 –> 00:08:38,940And when it’s taken off, there’s not much muscle there, you’ve really got to work the9700:08:38,940 –> 00:08:41,940thing in physiotherapy to get the strength back up.9800:08:41,940 –> 00:08:50,099And faith grows as it’s exercised, in the face of fears and in the face of anxieties9900:08:50,099 –> 00:08:54,299and in the face of distractions and all kinds of other things that come to us.10000:08:54,299 –> 00:08:56,260I think that’s actually how faith grows.10100:08:56,260 –> 00:08:57,260Yeah, absolutely.10200:08:57,260 –> 00:08:58,260Amen.10300:08:58,260 –> 00:08:59,260Amen to that.10400:08:59,260 –> 00:09:02,760But for someone who’s listening, thinking, okay, I look when I look back at my life,10500:09:02,799 –> 00:09:08,460I look back at a season where I really grew in faith, but I’ve been pretty stagnant.10600:09:08,460 –> 00:09:12,820I’ve been the same, in the same place in my faith for a really long time.10700:09:12,820 –> 00:09:16,460Why do you think that that might be and how can we get out of that?10800:09:16,460 –> 00:09:21,619Well, it’s always difficult to answer a question like that in candour because there are so10900:09:21,619 –> 00:09:22,739many different circumstances.11000:09:23,440 –> 00:09:28,539But, I mean, just to list one or two, sort of, possibilities.11100:09:28,539 –> 00:09:32,719Faith grows as we worship.11200:09:32,719 –> 00:09:40,979Faith grows as we are in the word of God actually applying that to our lives.11300:09:40,979 –> 00:09:47,440Faith grows as we give ourselves to the work of Christ’s Kingdom when Jesus was speaking11400:09:47,440 –> 00:09:49,640about anxious people.11500:09:49,739 –> 00:09:53,599He said seek first the Kingdom of God, and all these things, and his righteousness and11600:09:53,599 –> 00:09:55,799all these things will be added to you.11700:09:55,799 –> 00:10:00,039So there are just three examples of things that can go wrong.11800:10:00,039 –> 00:10:02,700I don’t have my eyes on Christ in worship.11900:10:02,700 –> 00:10:05,000I’m not engaged in the word.12000:10:05,000 –> 00:10:09,320I’m not giving myself to the work of His Kingdom.12100:10:09,320 –> 00:10:13,619These would be the kind of diagnostic questions that I would go through and just ask generally.12200:10:13,919 –> 00:10:15,020Now tell me about this.12300:10:15,020 –> 00:10:21,080Tell me about that, to try and discern what might be behind being stagnant?12400:10:21,080 –> 00:10:26,340Because your question is very much to the point that there can be periods of stagnation.12500:10:26,340 –> 00:10:30,919The question is, what’s behind it, and that’d be different in different circumstances.12600:10:30,919 –> 00:10:37,859And if doubt is a big thing for someone, if they’re just really grappling with key parts12700:10:37,859 –> 00:10:44,679of faith, doubting God’s character, can those seasons of doubt ever actually strengthen12800:10:44,679 –> 00:10:45,679faith?12900:10:45,679 –> 00:10:50,979Yeah, I mean, I think without question, it can be strengthening to faith because going13000:10:50,979 –> 00:10:59,820back to the analogy of the muscle, what is the muscle being exercised against here?13100:10:59,820 –> 00:11:03,500You’re saying one of the things that it is exercised against is doubt.13200:11:03,500 –> 00:11:07,580I have to believe in the face of questions.13300:11:07,580 –> 00:11:13,919There was a man who said to Jesus on one occasion, I believe, help my unbelief.13400:11:13,919 –> 00:11:18,679And that’s a really, really good prayer when we have questions.13500:11:18,679 –> 00:11:23,520I always want to encourage people who have questions to be honest about them, to find13600:11:23,520 –> 00:11:28,960someone who is a mature Christian to whom you can ask your questions.13700:11:28,960 –> 00:11:35,359There are some questions to which there are good answers and so don’t neglect that.13800:11:35,359 –> 00:11:40,640But there are some questions to which we’re not given answers this side of heaven.13900:11:40,640 –> 00:11:44,780There’s a verse in Deuteronomy that I find really helpful, Lydia.14000:11:44,780 –> 00:11:52,320It’s Deuteronomy 29.29, and so it’s easy to remember and it speaks about the secret things14100:11:52,320 –> 00:11:57,780and the things that God has revealed and there’s a distinction there.14200:11:57,780 –> 00:12:02,000Some things God has kept secret and in these things we have to trust Him.14300:12:02,320 –> 00:12:05,299Now, I don’t know how many times I’ve had someone say to me,14400:12:05,299 –> 00:12:08,140pastor, I don’t understand why.14500:12:08,140 –> 00:12:13,059And that is a place where we have to trust because he’s kept that secret.14600:12:13,059 –> 00:12:19,799But the way we trust with what God has kept secret is by believing what he has revealed.14700:12:19,799 –> 00:12:23,419That’s where we’ve got to get our eyes, otherwise we will be adrift in doubt.14800:12:23,419 –> 00:12:26,159What has God revealed that I can trust here?14900:12:26,159 –> 00:12:29,780So we’ll go back to things like His love, His commitment to us in Christ.15000:12:30,400 –> 00:12:34,679A friend of mine said just at church yesterday as he was ending the service15100:12:34,679 –> 00:12:39,619that the future always makes sense of the present.15200:12:39,619 –> 00:12:41,280I thought that was a great line.15300:12:41,280 –> 00:12:43,859I’d just been preaching on the resurrection.15400:12:43,859 –> 00:12:45,119And he was taking up on that,15500:12:45,119 –> 00:12:49,979we’re going to be in the presence of Christ and every tear wiped out from our eyes.15600:12:49,979 –> 00:12:52,599So for folks who’ve got tears in their eyes this morning,15700:12:52,599 –> 00:12:56,239it’s the future that makes sense of the present.15800:12:57,140 –> 00:12:59,780You’re listening to Open the Bible with Pastor Colin Smith15900:12:59,780 –> 00:13:01,580in a special program today.16000:13:01,580 –> 00:13:04,659Pastor Colin Smith in conversation with Lydia Bennett16100:13:04,659 –> 00:13:08,619from a recent Premiere Christian Radio broadcast.16200:13:08,619 –> 00:13:11,900Colin’s talking about the subject of growing in faith16300:13:11,900 –> 00:13:16,099and that’s also the subject of a new book by Pastor Colin.16400:13:16,099 –> 00:13:20,119If you’d like a copy of the book you can get a free e-book copy16500:13:20,119 –> 00:13:24,880if you’ve signed up to receive our regular Open the Bible newsletter.16600:13:25,359 –> 00:13:30,719To get your free e-book, go to openthebible.org.uk16700:13:30,719 –> 00:13:33,520and click on register for updates.16800:13:33,520 –> 00:13:38,320Back to the program now, Lydia Bennett’s in conversation with Pastor Colin Smith.16900:13:38,320 –> 00:13:43,520What role does Church community play in growing our faith?17000:13:43,520 –> 00:13:47,440Where is Church community really helpful and are there ever times17100:13:47,440 –> 00:13:50,080when maybe we should be a bit more introspective maybe17200:13:50,080 –> 00:13:52,479and go to God rather than to Church community?17300:13:52,479 –> 00:13:58,640Well, the answer is definitely both and, but you are absolutely right to17400:13:58,640 –> 00:14:04,640underline the gift of being together with other believers.17500:14:04,640 –> 00:14:09,840So, when Paul says in Ephesians, you know in the passage about the armour of God17600:14:09,840 –> 00:14:12,880and he refers to the shield of faith?17700:14:12,880 –> 00:14:18,880Now, I was fascinated to find out that when he talks about the shield of faith,17800:14:18,880 –> 00:14:21,280if I was drawing a little round shield,17900:14:21,280 –> 00:14:23,520you know that person has on their forearm,18000:14:23,520 –> 00:14:25,119that’s not what he was referring to.18100:14:25,119 –> 00:14:28,000He was referring to the the Roman Phalanx,18200:14:28,000 –> 00:14:30,080this thing in which it became like a tortoise.18300:14:30,080 –> 00:14:34,239There were eight soldiers together, three down each side, back to back,18400:14:34,239 –> 00:14:37,280and then one at each end and they would18500:14:37,280 –> 00:14:40,640hold up these large shields like a police riot shield18600:14:40,640 –> 00:14:42,960and they would basically cover themselves,18700:14:42,960 –> 00:14:47,359eight of them so that they became arrows and whatever.18800:14:47,359 –> 00:14:49,599We just couldn’t penetrate18900:14:49,679 –> 00:14:54,320and that’s a brilliant picture that there is an element of faith19000:14:54,320 –> 00:14:57,919that is exercised alongside other believers,19100:14:57,919 –> 00:14:59,520others who come and say,19200:14:59,520 –> 00:15:03,520we stand with you, we’ll pray with you, we will help you19300:15:03,520 –> 00:15:07,119and let’s believe the Lord together and trust him in this19400:15:07,119 –> 00:15:09,039and that, that’s a marvellous gift.19500:15:09,039 –> 00:15:12,400God never intended any Christian to live the Christian life alone19600:15:13,039 –> 00:15:16,159and that’s the gift of the church, of the local church19700:15:16,159 –> 00:15:19,359and so I never want to stop cheering for that19800:15:19,359 –> 00:15:20,640and encouraging people,19900:15:20,640 –> 00:15:22,719anytime we’re on the radio, we really want to say,20000:15:22,719 –> 00:15:24,080where is there a local church20100:15:24,799 –> 00:15:27,119that you can get involved with other believers20200:15:27,119 –> 00:15:29,840who will stand with you in the battles that you’re facing?20300:15:29,840 –> 00:15:33,039You know, what is that connection between knowing God’s word20400:15:33,039 –> 00:15:34,719and trusting God more?20500:15:35,520 –> 00:15:39,440When we come to that, I find it really, really helpful20600:15:40,880 –> 00:15:46,239just as my own regular practice of reading the Bible20700:15:46,239 –> 00:15:49,679just to ask myself some basic questions.20800:15:51,119 –> 00:15:53,840When I read a passage, I might read maybe 10 verses,20900:15:53,840 –> 00:15:54,719something like that,21000:15:55,520 –> 00:15:59,760and then just ask, is there a promise here for me to believe?21100:16:00,880 –> 00:16:03,919Is there a command here for me to obey?21200:16:04,400 –> 00:16:08,000Is there a sin here for me to avoid, to leave?21300:16:09,039 –> 00:16:11,520Is there an example here for me to follow?21400:16:11,520 –> 00:16:13,520Very simple questions like that.21500:16:14,239 –> 00:16:18,960In other words, don’t just read verses of the Bible and say I’ve read them.21600:16:19,679 –> 00:16:21,679The Bible is to be believed.21700:16:21,679 –> 00:16:23,200It is to be obeyed.21800:16:24,320 –> 00:16:27,200It is to produce a response in our lives.21900:16:27,200 –> 00:16:32,320So it’s the question here is is is how we read the Bible22000:16:32,880 –> 00:16:35,679and to read the Bible with the eyes of faith22100:16:35,679 –> 00:16:38,799is going to make all the difference in the world22200:16:38,799 –> 00:16:41,679for merely being aware of what its contents are.22300:16:41,679 –> 00:16:45,440Now Colin, many people feel that they’re bad at prayer.22400:16:46,239 –> 00:16:48,400Can you be bad at prayer?22500:16:50,559 –> 00:16:53,200No, I don’t think you can be bad at prayer22600:16:53,200 –> 00:16:58,000because prayer is simply the cry of the heart to God,22700:16:58,000 –> 00:17:02,239and we’re talking about growing in faith.22800:17:02,239 –> 00:17:03,679In Luke 17.22900:17:03,679 –> 00:17:06,479We’re told that the disciples said on one occasion23000:17:06,479 –> 00:17:08,640to Jesus increase our faith.23100:17:08,640 –> 00:17:10,400While that’s a pretty good prayer, I think,23200:17:10,479 –> 00:17:12,640isn’t it, to say to Jesus,23300:17:13,599 –> 00:17:15,199can you make my faith more,23400:17:15,199 –> 00:17:18,160can you help my faith to grow?23500:17:18,160 –> 00:17:20,239I think that’s a great prayer,23600:17:20,239 –> 00:17:21,359and it’s a great prayer23700:17:21,359 –> 00:17:23,199because it’s such a simple prayer.23800:17:23,199 –> 00:17:26,560And that’s where we begin.23900:17:27,839 –> 00:17:29,760And as we get to know the Lord better,24000:17:29,760 –> 00:17:34,479then our conversation with him will deepen.24100:17:34,479 –> 00:17:37,119The thing that I find most helpful on this24200:17:37,199 –> 00:17:40,560to remember that people often talk about a conversation24300:17:40,560 –> 00:17:41,760and that’s two ways.24400:17:42,400 –> 00:17:44,079How does God speak to me?24500:17:44,719 –> 00:17:46,239He speaks to me through the Bible.24600:17:46,800 –> 00:17:48,719How do I speak to him?24700:17:48,719 –> 00:17:50,640I speak to him through prayer.24800:17:50,640 –> 00:17:52,959So keep these two things together.24900:17:52,959 –> 00:17:55,839So one of the things that I find really, really helpful25000:17:55,839 –> 00:17:59,520is just pray with an open Bible.25100:17:59,520 –> 00:18:01,359So we were talking a few minutes ago25200:18:01,359 –> 00:18:04,160about the value of just reading a few verses25300:18:04,160 –> 00:18:05,839and asking some simple questions25400:18:05,839 –> 00:18:07,520to apply them to your own life,25500:18:08,079 –> 00:18:09,520but I find it really helpful25600:18:09,520 –> 00:18:12,239then to try and turn what I’ve read into a prayer25700:18:12,880 –> 00:18:13,280and say,25800:18:13,280 –> 00:18:16,239Well, here’s something that I’m called to.25900:18:16,239 –> 00:18:18,079I’m going to need the help of God to do it.26000:18:19,040 –> 00:18:20,640There’s the prayer right there.26100:18:20,640 –> 00:18:23,599So that’s a basic practice26200:18:23,599 –> 00:18:26,560that I think helps people to learn prayer26300:18:26,560 –> 00:18:28,719and I’ve been doing it for many years.26400:18:28,719 –> 00:18:30,800I don’t expect ever to move beyond it.26500:18:30,800 –> 00:18:32,560I’m speaking from personal experience here,26600:18:32,560 –> 00:18:34,560but I think often we can equate26700:18:34,560 –> 00:18:36,800the maturity of our faith26800:18:36,800 –> 00:18:39,599with the the quiet time that we have in the morning,26900:18:39,599 –> 00:18:41,920how often we pray,27000:18:41,920 –> 00:18:43,599how long we pray for,27100:18:45,119 –> 00:18:46,800and we know that that isn’t,27200:18:46,800 –> 00:18:48,800that actually isn’t what God requires of us.27300:18:48,800 –> 00:18:50,959He doesn’t say you must have an hour in the morning,27400:18:50,959 –> 00:18:55,199that means that you’re a spiritually mature Christian,27500:18:55,199 –> 00:18:58,479but does- are there some areas of prayer27600:18:58,479 –> 00:19:00,000that if we’re doing that right,27700:19:00,000 –> 00:19:03,359then we’re on the right track to spiritual maturity?27800:19:03,359 –> 00:19:05,680Well, you know people have different routines,27900:19:05,680 –> 00:19:06,800some people work well in the morning,28000:19:06,800 –> 00:19:09,199some people work well at night,28100:19:09,760 –> 00:19:13,040and nobody should be setting a kind of template28200:19:13,040 –> 00:19:14,800for this is what you have to do.28300:19:15,760 –> 00:19:19,280But in the same way as our bodies are nourished28400:19:19,280 –> 00:19:21,760by eating and people eat at different times28500:19:21,760 –> 00:19:23,680and they eat different things and all the rest of it,28600:19:23,680 –> 00:19:25,040but if you’re not eating,28700:19:25,040 –> 00:19:26,000you’re not doing well.28800:19:27,520 –> 00:19:32,160Having an input of the word and prayer into your life28900:19:32,880 –> 00:19:36,319is really basic to spiritual health.29000:19:36,319 –> 00:19:39,359So I mean I’ve been a pastor for a long time29100:19:40,160 –> 00:19:42,640and I’ve seen people whose lives29200:19:42,640 –> 00:19:45,359have wonderfully and radically changed29300:19:46,079 –> 00:19:48,959and I’ve seen lots of people also29400:19:48,959 –> 00:19:51,040who simply have become older versions29500:19:51,040 –> 00:19:52,160of what they were before29600:19:52,719 –> 00:19:55,599and nobody really wants to be there I don’t think,29700:19:55,599 –> 00:19:57,520but I have observed this difference29800:19:57,520 –> 00:20:00,719that where there has been real significant change29900:20:00,719 –> 00:20:04,079there has invariably been a drip feeding of the Word of God30000:20:04,079 –> 00:20:07,119into a person’s life and a pattern of prayer30100:20:07,119 –> 00:20:09,599and where a person has simply become an older version30200:20:09,599 –> 00:20:10,880of what they were before30300:20:10,880 –> 00:20:12,000typically there’s not been.30400:20:12,000 –> 00:20:13,599They might attend church on Sunday30500:20:13,599 –> 00:20:16,319but there’s not as far as I can see30600:20:16,880 –> 00:20:20,880evidence of any deeper more regular daily engagement.30700:20:20,880 –> 00:20:22,880So that tells you a whole lot.30800:20:22,880 –> 00:20:24,239You want to see your life change.30900:20:24,239 –> 00:20:25,520You want to see faith grow.31000:20:25,520 –> 00:20:27,040It’s not just going to happen.31100:20:27,040 –> 00:20:28,880There are some practices31200:20:28,880 –> 00:20:30,959and we’re talking here in the Word and prayer31300:20:30,959 –> 00:20:32,079with the most basic ones.31400:20:32,079 –> 00:20:33,839We’d want to add worship and fellowship31500:20:33,839 –> 00:20:36,160that we’ve been talking about too in there31600:20:36,160 –> 00:20:38,319but there are things that we can do31700:20:38,319 –> 00:20:39,280and we should do them31800:20:39,280 –> 00:20:41,280and we should pursue them vigorously.31900:20:41,280 –> 00:20:42,479Tell me about some of the practices32000:20:42,479 –> 00:20:45,199that you found really helpful for growing in faith.32100:20:45,199 –> 00:20:46,880Well I the first ones have been32200:20:46,880 –> 00:20:48,479the words i’ve been talking about32300:20:49,280 –> 00:20:50,880The drip-feeding of the Word of God32400:20:50,880 –> 00:20:52,479the applying it to life32500:20:52,479 –> 00:20:53,219prayer32600:20:53,219 –> 00:20:55,599the fellowship of God’s people32700:20:55,599 –> 00:20:56,319worship32800:20:56,319 –> 00:20:58,400that’s the kind of the gaze of the soul32900:20:58,400 –> 00:21:00,239I think it was A. W. Tozer who said that33000:21:00,239 –> 00:21:01,680it’s the gaze of the soul33100:21:01,680 –> 00:21:03,680upon the Lord Jesus Christ33200:21:03,680 –> 00:21:04,800and and worship33300:21:05,599 –> 00:21:07,359is profoundly helpful33400:21:07,359 –> 00:21:08,560not only because we’re gathering33500:21:08,560 –> 00:21:09,920with the people of God33600:21:09,920 –> 00:21:11,599but because we’re getting our eyes33700:21:11,599 –> 00:21:12,479and our minds33800:21:12,479 –> 00:21:12,979fixed33900:21:13,520 –> 00:21:15,199on Christ himself34000:21:15,199 –> 00:21:16,880which lifts us from the stuff34100:21:16,880 –> 00:21:18,079that drags us down34200:21:18,079 –> 00:21:19,359and and renews us34300:21:19,359 –> 00:21:20,719and and refreshes us34400:21:21,280 –> 00:21:22,079and then this34500:21:22,079 –> 00:21:23,920seek first the kingdom of God34600:21:24,560 –> 00:21:25,060You know34700:21:26,239 –> 00:21:28,319we do grow as we serve34800:21:28,800 –> 00:21:31,520and I what I found in life34900:21:31,520 –> 00:21:33,839is that Christ doesn’t allow35000:21:33,839 –> 00:21:35,599us to live within our own35100:21:35,599 –> 00:21:36,880comfort zones for long35200:21:37,439 –> 00:21:39,199he pushes us out into the deep35300:21:39,839 –> 00:21:41,520and faith grows35400:21:41,520 –> 00:21:42,560as we trust him35500:21:42,560 –> 00:21:43,439in things that we think35600:21:43,439 –> 00:21:44,800we might not be able to do35700:21:44,800 –> 00:21:46,479but he’s calling us to do them35800:21:46,479 –> 00:21:47,920or we’ve been asked to do them35900:21:47,920 –> 00:21:50,079and we take a step of faith36000:21:50,719 –> 00:21:52,319And that’s been part36100:21:52,319 –> 00:21:53,199of my experience36200:21:53,199 –> 00:21:54,640Now I see it’s been the part36300:21:54,640 –> 00:21:56,000of the experience of others, too36400:21:56,640 –> 00:21:59,680Over your 30 years of pastoring36500:21:59,680 –> 00:22:02,000and longer of being a follower of Jesus36600:22:03,040 –> 00:22:04,160How has your understanding36700:22:04,160 –> 00:22:05,599of prayer changed?36800:22:05,599 –> 00:22:08,239How has your knowledge of prayer36900:22:08,239 –> 00:22:09,439your understanding of it37000:22:09,439 –> 00:22:10,560how has it shifted?37100:22:11,680 –> 00:22:13,599Do you know the honest answer to that37200:22:13,599 –> 00:22:15,040is I don’t think it has at all37300:22:17,599 –> 00:22:18,959People have the idea that37400:22:18,959 –> 00:22:19,839if you’re a pastor37500:22:19,839 –> 00:22:20,479you’ve been doing this37600:22:20,479 –> 00:22:20,959for years37700:22:20,959 –> 00:22:22,160you must have some secret37800:22:23,119 –> 00:22:25,520and the truth is, I don’t37900:22:26,160 –> 00:22:27,760and neither does anyone else38000:22:28,800 –> 00:22:30,160the reality is38100:22:30,160 –> 00:22:31,920that God speaks to us through his word38200:22:31,920 –> 00:22:34,160he invites us to speak to him in prayer38300:22:34,800 –> 00:22:37,199and that there is a simplicity about that38400:22:37,760 –> 00:22:39,280he gives to us the presence38500:22:39,280 –> 00:22:41,599and the help of the holy spirit in doing it38600:22:41,599 –> 00:22:42,959we count on the presence38700:22:42,959 –> 00:22:44,959and help of the holy spirit in doing it38800:22:44,959 –> 00:22:46,239but honestly38900:22:46,239 –> 00:22:47,920the things that I do39000:22:47,920 –> 00:22:49,760to sustain my spiritual life39100:22:49,760 –> 00:22:50,719after all of these years39200:22:50,719 –> 00:22:51,599of being a pastor39300:22:52,160 –> 00:22:53,520are no different39400:22:53,520 –> 00:22:54,959from what they were at the beginning39500:22:54,959 –> 00:22:56,319and no different39600:22:56,319 –> 00:22:57,900from what any other christian39700:22:57,900 –> 00:23:00,160should naturally and normally be pursuing39800:23:00,160 –> 00:23:02,160so I hope that’s encouraging to people39900:23:02,160 –> 00:23:03,599it’s you know40000:23:03,599 –> 00:23:05,599if you think that some people have got a secret40100:23:05,599 –> 00:23:07,040then you’re always going to be wondering40200:23:07,040 –> 00:23:08,719why you’ve not got it40300:23:08,719 –> 00:23:10,000I just want to say40400:23:10,000 –> 00:23:10,800that’s not the case40500:23:11,520 –> 00:23:12,479Pastor Colin Smith40600:23:12,479 –> 00:23:13,439there talking to40700:23:13,439 –> 00:23:16,000Premier Christian Radio’s Lydia Bennett40800:23:16,000 –> 00:23:16,959on the subject40900:23:16,959 –> 00:23:18,160Growing in Faith41000:23:18,160 –> 00:23:20,239and if you’d like to get hold of a copy of41100:23:20,239 –> 00:23:22,160Pastor Colin Smith’s ebook41200:23:22,160 –> 00:23:23,359Growing in Faith41300:23:23,359 –> 00:23:25,520you can do that by coming to our website41400:23:25,520 –> 00:23:28,479openthebible.org.uk41500:23:28,479 –> 00:23:29,839click on the splash screen41600:23:30,400 –> 00:23:33,040or click on the register for updates button41700:23:33,599 –> 00:23:34,560At Open the Bible41800:23:34,560 –> 00:23:36,160we’re able to do the work we do41900:23:36,160 –> 00:23:38,239in bringing you the radio programme42000:23:38,239 –> 00:23:40,160and the internet and the podcasts42100:23:40,719 –> 00:23:42,959only because of the generous support42200:23:42,959 –> 00:23:44,719which we receive from our listeners42300:23:44,719 –> 00:23:46,719so if you already give to support42400:23:46,719 –> 00:23:48,000Open the Bible’s work42500:23:48,000 –> 00:23:49,040thank you so much42600:23:49,760 –> 00:23:51,280this month if you want to begin42700:23:51,280 –> 00:23:53,599to support Open the Bible financially42800:23:53,599 –> 00:23:54,880we’d love to say thank you42900:23:54,880 –> 00:23:56,880by sending you a free gift43000:23:56,880 –> 00:23:58,319Here’s Open the Bible’s43100:23:58,319 –> 00:24:00,719Amanda Cunningham to tell us about it43200:24:00,719 –> 00:24:02,400When life is uncertain43300:24:02,400 –> 00:24:04,000where do you find hope?43400:24:04,880 –> 00:24:06,640Grow in Hope by Colin Smith43500:24:06,640 –> 00:24:08,319is a 30-day devotional43600:24:08,319 –> 00:24:10,800that will help you anchor your heart43700:24:10,800 –> 00:24:12,160in God’s promises43800:24:12,160 –> 00:24:13,920and discover the confidence43900:24:13,920 –> 00:24:15,599that comes from trusting him44000:24:16,479 –> 00:24:18,079Through daily scripture readings44100:24:18,079 –> 00:24:20,000and practical encouragement44200:24:20,000 –> 00:24:22,000you’ll learn how to grow in a hope44300:24:22,000 –> 00:24:23,439that remains steady44400:24:23,439 –> 00:24:25,280through every season of life44500:24:26,079 –> 00:24:28,560Get your free copy of Grow in Hope44600:24:28,560 –> 00:24:30,079when you give a one-off gift44700:24:30,079 –> 00:24:31,199of at least £6044800:24:32,000 –> 00:24:34,160or start a new monthly gift44900:24:34,160 –> 00:24:35,760of £5 or more45000:24:36,319 –> 00:24:37,839But please do remember45100:24:37,839 –> 00:24:39,760to leave your name and address45200:24:39,760 –> 00:24:40,719when you give45300:24:40,719 –> 00:24:43,760so that we know where to send your gift45400:24:43,760 –> 00:24:45,280So Pastor Colin’s book,45500:24:45,280 –> 00:24:46,239Grow in Hope,45600:24:46,239 –> 00:24:47,280is our gift to you45700:24:47,280 –> 00:24:49,119when you set up a new direct debit45800:24:49,119 –> 00:24:50,719to the work of Open the Bible45900:24:50,719 –> 00:24:53,359in the amount of £5 per month or more46000:24:53,359 –> 00:24:55,920or a one-off gift of £60 or more46100:24:55,920 –> 00:24:56,880this month46200:24:56,880 –> 00:24:58,079Full terms and conditions46300:24:58,079 –> 00:24:59,119are on our website46400:24:59,119 –> 00:25:00,880and you can give online46500:25:00,880 –> 00:25:01,760Please remember though46600:25:01,760 –> 00:25:02,640as Amanda says46700:25:02,640 –> 00:25:03,920to leave your full name46800:25:03,920 –> 00:25:04,880and address46900:25:04,880 –> 00:25:06,479so we can send you your gift47000:25:06,479 –> 00:25:07,520For Open the Bible47100:25:07,520 –> 00:25:08,800and pastor Colin Smith47200:25:08,800 –> 00:25:09,920I’m David Pick47300:25:09,920 –> 00:25:11,199Glad you joined us today47400:25:11,199 –> 00:25:12,000and I hope you’ll be able47500:25:12,000 –> 00:25:13,040to join us again47600:25:13,040 –> 00:25:19,040in our next programme47700:25:19,319 –> 00:25:22,319MUSIC47800:25:23,719 –> 00:25:25,040How are we involved47900:25:25,040 –> 00:25:27,079in what God provides?48000:25:27,079 –> 00:25:28,599Find out next time on48100:25:28,599 –> 00:25:29,560Open the Bible